Steroids in Baseball: Hall Of Fame Worthy????

Are players guilty of using steroids or PED's worthy of the Hall Of Fame(HOF)????

From my standpoint if their stats are legit than they should be allowed in without asterik marks or anything else....The past decade or so there have been numerous allegations and confessions about steroids and PED's....it would be way too hard to weed out who is still worthy of the HOF and who is not...I say they enact a rule in the near future that from the year ____ if you are found using PED's than you disqualify yourself from the HOF....however anybody before the rule is enacted is still eligible for the HOF


What are Your thoughts????

In this day and age I think you have to put guys in the HOF. Just because you use steroids doesn't make you a great player worthy of the HOF. Steroids don't automatically make you great. Lets not forget that many steroid users who are HOF worthy were HOF worthy before steroids.

People act like the Steroid magically make you a superstar, i guarentee you give me roids and I can't do what Pujols does...you still need the talent.

MyfriendscallmeMrParker wrote:People act like the Steroid magically make you a superstar, i guarentee you give me roids and I can't do what Pujols does...you still need the talent.

Exactly, they act like steroids=talent

Without the steroids era baseball wouldn't be what it is now. That era is what brought the fans back to the game.

but the game of baseball is all about loyalty to the game and love for it....its americas past time.....the integrity of the game is tarnished when someone uses roids and some people feel thats enough to strip you of your HOF eligibility regardless of whether you had the stats before u started using

lakersandravens wrote:but the game of baseball is all about loyalty to the game and love for it....its americas past time.....the integrity of the game is tarnished when someone uses roids and some people feel thats enough to strip you of your HOF eligibility regardless of whether you had the stats before u started using

I would agree with them if it was just a few people here and there using. But when a large percentage of people use you have no choice but to let them into the HOF. Even if your a great player who never used steroids its still assumed that you used steroids. No one gets the benefit of the doubt, everyone is presumed guilty even if innocent.

I think the integrity of the game is overrated when you're paying players hundreds of millions of dollars to perform...

MyfriendscallmeMrParker wrote:People act like the Steroid magically make you a superstar, i guarentee you give me roids and I can't do what Pujols does...you still need the talent.

This isn't the question though.....and its a narrow view of the argument. Of course if you take every form of PED known to man you'll never be able to hit .340 and acquire a .450 OBP, but if you can already hit .300, slug 30 homeruns and steal 30 bases, then taking PEDS will enhance your natural performance and give you better numbers, which will create the appearance that you are a better player than you actually are......also, it will allow you to perform at that level for a longer period of time, which again, will allow you to accumulate a sick collection of numbers......


With all that said.....imo, yes, people who have been implicated in this whole mess SHOULD be allowed in the HAll because there is no way in hell to determine who exactly did what and for how long and who didn't do what and for how long. It's just to messsy. Plus, what if someone on HGH hits a homerun off of a closer who is also on HGH? Does that cancel each other out and make it a legit homerun? Too many variables are at play to just punish some and not others.

I once heard someone say that they way you resolve this, is by constructing an entire new wing at the HAll of Fame....from say 1975 to the Present and you simply make that the PED Wing, and all players who are elected to the HAll that played during that span will have their plaques placed in that section---even if it' ssomeone like Greg Maddux who was never really suspected of using PEDS......even those who didn't use them, still had their numbers effected by those who did.........

Let em all in , or let none of em in........

DAMN. I really wanted someone to argue with me over this....

So the lesson you want to teach the aspiring young athletes is "Your best isn't good enough. Cheat your way through and be rewarded for it in the end."? Seriously?

One Angry Black Man wrote:So the lesson you want to teach the aspiring young athletes is "Your best isn't good enough. Cheat your way through and be rewarded for it in the end."? Seriously?

^^^
is that direted at threadstarter?

I say let them in because of the era it was, almost everybody if not everybody a lot of players were doing it.

What they could do though to counter that, it's take away any MVP's, or any awards won by a player on PED's, and take away any stats that were accumulated by a player during the years he was using PED's.

They should do that and just let these players stats be what they were before they got on steroids, if they get in off their non-steroid numbers resumes good, if not so be it

WhatIsReallyReal? wrote:DAMN. I really wanted someone to argue with me over this....

LOL not gonna happen. At least it won't be me but I'll put a little something on your plate. lol

Baseball is a hand eye coordination sport. I played since I was a kid all the way up until I graduated HS. Like cutthroat said, these guys were good before they started taking the steroids. But in all honesty, we don't know how long they were juicing for. Now, I'm not saying they all started in college. I'm just saying we don't know. Bonds was still good prior to juicing. Shit he was so skinny too, look at his Pirate photos. I agree with WIRR because if you already possess the talent, they will make you better. You will be able to hit the ball harder and farther, even throw the ball harder. i.e. Clemens. Look at his numbers and tell me you can't raise your eyebrow. On top of all the evidence. His trainer did him dirty saving that syringe.

As for the question, Yes they should be allowed in. There are too many to just "shut the doors" on. What the MLB needs is a commissioner like Roger Goodell. And he can do what you said about if "you have used after certain date you're signing away your HOF chance". I think Bud is like "fuck it" and doesn't care about the problem. Or he feels there is nothing he can do to rid the problem. The thing that irritates me the most is when the player lies about. Like how Ortiz took a week before acknowledging it. Why? He said because he wanted to get some answers from the testing. Once your name is dropped like that in the media and you're linked with steroids. You have to say something. The longer you wait, the guiltier you look.

lakersandravens wrote:

One Angry Black Man wrote:So the lesson you want to teach the aspiring young athletes is "Your best isn't good enough. Cheat your way through and be rewarded for it in the end."? Seriously?

^^^
is that direted at threadstarter?

That is directed at everybody who thinks steroid users should be allowed into the hall

One Angry Black Man wrote:

lakersandravens wrote:

One Angry Black Man wrote:So the lesson you want to teach the aspiring young athletes is "Your best isn't good enough. Cheat your way through and be rewarded for it in the end."? Seriously?

^^^
is that direted at threadstarter?

That is directed at everybody who thinks steroid users should be allowed into the hall

well, considering that it wasn't against baseball's rules until just recently....around 04-05 i think....they weren't actually cheating....so if the kids you're talking about were to get any message, it would be that bad or incomplete rules create loop holes big enough to drive a Mac Truck thru....Bonds did not break any rules, technically, but he did commit perjury.....this is where it gets complicated....plus....another mixed message for the kids, is arbitrarily banning people from the Hall of Fame, when no actual evidence exists that they did anything wrong...or...that the evidence that does exists was obtained illgally because it broke confidentiality agreements.....lol...like i said, this shit is a mess....so just create another wing in the hall and refer to it as The Performance Enhancement Era.....i do'nt see how else to deal with it. Baseball fucked up and then they tried to act like they didn't know fucked up shit was going on, and worse yet....people who covered the sport, reporters, who are also responsible for HOF votes, didn't pursue the story then, when shit was going down, but now they're trying to claim some sort of moral high grouond because it allows them to fill their column space......smh...

How you gonna keep bonds out the Hall? the only man with 500 home runs and 500 stolen bases and no one else in history even has 400 stolen bases and 400 homeruns....not even Mays......and bonds accomplished 400/400 in 98, which was two years before the evidence "suggests" that he began his juicing.....you can't keep bonds out.....and if you can't keep bonds out....how you gonna keep sosa out....600 homeruns...only player to hit 60 homeruns in three different seasons...and if you can't keep sosa out...how you gonna kepp......etc, etc, etc, etc, see what i mean here.....where do you draw the line.....

WhatIsReallyReal? wrote:

One Angry Black Man wrote:

lakersandravens wrote:

One Angry Black Man wrote:So the lesson you want to teach the aspiring young athletes is "Your best isn't good enough. Cheat your way through and be rewarded for it in the end."? Seriously?

^^^
is that direted at threadstarter?

That is directed at everybody who thinks steroid users should be allowed into the hall

well, considering that it wasn't against baseball's rules until just recently....around 04-05 i think....they weren't actually cheating....so if the kids you're talking about were to get any message, it would be that bad or incomplete rules create loop holes big enough to drive a Mac Truck thru....Bonds did not break any rules, technically, but he did commit perjury.....this is where it gets complicated....plus....another mixed message for the kids, is arbitrarily banning people from the Hall of Fame, when no actual evidence exists that they did anything wrong...or...that the evidence that does exists was obtained illgally because it broke confidentiality agreements.....lol...like i said, this shit is a mess....so just create another wing in the hall and refer to it as The Performance Enhancement Era.....i do'nt see how else to deal with it. Baseball fucked up and then they tried to act like they didn't know fucked up shit was going on, and worse yet....people who covered the sport, reporters, who are also responsible for HOF votes, didn't pursue the story then, when shit was going down, but now they're trying to claim some sort of moral high grouond because it allows them to fill their column space......smh...

How you gonna keep bonds out the Hall? the only man with 500 home runs and 500 stolen bases and no one else in history even has 400 stolen bases and 400 homeruns....not even Mays......and bonds accomplished 400/400 in 98, which was two years before the evidence "suggests" that he began his juicing.....you can't keep bonds out.....and if you can't keep bonds out....how you gonna keep sosa out....600 homeruns...only player to hit 60 homeruns in three different seasons...and if you can't keep sosa out...how you gonna kepp......etc, etc, etc, etc, see what i mean here.....where do you draw the line.....

Whether it was actually in the rules or not, the oldest unwritten law of sports is "winners never cheat and cheaters never win". Every athlete has that instilled in them from the very first time they take the field or court when they are a kid.

Bonds was a great player and was already headed to the hof before 98 but guess what happened? Two jerks were stealing all of the limelight because they found a way to turn what were normally doubles into homeruns and mlb ran with it. After the strike they were desperate for any attention and we all know the homerun is the most exciting play in baseball.

McGwire was good but a .260 hitter that avg around 90rbi's per season while in oakland wasn't going to make the hall. Look at Sosa's numbers before he started juicing. He was a semi decent hitter with some decent speed but again, he hit around .270, never had more than 40 hrs, cracked 100 rbi's a few times and was a strikeout machine, so he wasn't making the hall either.

If your Bonds and you see these two cats with half the talent you have but they're doing mcdonald's commercials and being made poster boys of the league, what do you do? You cheat too to become even better than the bums that cheated first. Now the floodgates open and even cats like brady anderson start hitting 50. The entire thing got out of hand so what do we do? Reward them on the grounds of "well everybody did it so i guess its ok" Bullshit. Keep all of them out and use it as a lesson for what happens when you do things the wrong way.

Let barry bonds be the person kids see when they think about using any peds. They can look and say he would've made it if he would've just stayed clean and take the drug free route. If you let any of them in, you're saying loud and clear that its ok to cheat as long as everybody else around you is doing it. Next thing you know, there will be a kid in jr high hitting 500 ft shots saying he wants to be in the hall like barry. You can't do it.

Baseball needs to drop all the names of those who tested positive and the sports writers need to refuse to vote anybody on that list in. If they can keep rose out for tarnishing the integrity of the game when he's the best hitter the sport has ever known, they can keep the rest of them out too.

Well since we're on this topic, I'm gonna throw a name out there.

Pete Rose.

After all that has happened in baseball, should Rose still be banned? Or should his issue be reconsidered?

One Man Army wrote:Well since we're on this topic, I'm gonna throw a name out there.

Pete Rose.

After all that has happened in baseball, should Rose still be banned? Or should his issue be reconsidered?

ban his ass for life.

but you already have people in the Hall who cheated in other ways One....pitchers who altered the baseball in other ways, are you going to retroactively strip them of their Hall privileges because they cheated too??


Your post read more like a defense of Barry Bonds than anything else....


But consider this, too: you say Sosa wouldn't have made the Hall ifi he hadn't cheated, but what if 200 of his homeruns were hit off of pitchers who were using PEDs? Or what if he had other basehits, doubles, steals, rbis, etc taken away from him because defenders who played against him were using PEDs?? How can you keep him out just because he's a big name and call that fair....the marginal players in the league were using them too, so its impossible to tell what numbers are real and what number are inflated.....

I wasnt defending barry, I was using him as a case study for why you shouldn't use peds. He was a lock for the hall before and now they shouldn't even put him on the ballot. It's not that hard to tell who was on it and who's not. They have the samples from before it was officially illegal and 130 guys showed up on the list. Nobody on the list should be allowed in and that includes my boy Arod, Manny and Clemens. Anybody that's been caught doping should be banned from the hall, no questions asked. Anybody that makes the hall that played between 96 and 2005 should have an asterisk denoting that they played during the steroid era. But never in the history of sports have I heard anything so ridiculous as enshrining known cheaters.

cheaters are already enshrined though....whether you've heard of it or not is another thing...

And no, you can't tell who was on it and who was not, because no on thought andy pettite was on the shit, but he admitted to taking HGH for awhile....


Also, thre have been other marginal players, relief pitchers, middle infielders who were caught that weren't bulky...........

So from what I have read and gathered....The majority of posters here feel they should be allowed in right? One Angry Black man, you feel that they shouldn't be allowed in period? Only reason I ask is because of your last post. You said everyone should be banned from the HOF. Then you went on to say "Anybody that makes the hall that played between 96 and 2005 should have an asterisk denoting that they played during the steroid era." So are you ok with players from the 96-05 period being inducted, but the name has to bare the asterisk? AND if that's the case why keep Rose out?

I want others to speak on Rose as well.

EDIT wtf happened to my avatar? nobody has one right?

*looks at WIRR with the rock eyebrow*

my avatar posts inconsistently....i'm confused as well


at it makes no sense to have 96 as the beginning of the steroid era was Canseco admitted to being juiced during his whole tenure in Oakland and that began in the 80's.....

Rose should be in...........he cheated as a manager, not a player.....

WhatIsReallyReal? wrote:my avatar posts inconsistently....i'm confused as well


at it makes no sense to have 96 as the beginning of the steroid era was Canseco admitted to being juiced during his whole tenure in Oakland and that began in the 80's.....

Yea mine isn't even showing up. I agree with you about 96. Doesn't everyone remember McGwire and Canseco on the A's together juicing? That shit was well before the 96 season.

WhatIsReallyReal? wrote:Rose should be in...........he cheated as a manager, not a player.....

Exactly. This is my whole take on the Rose vs Steroid players....These athletes have cheated (some admitted, some not) in a game with the hopes of hitting the ball father, harder, and all together becoming a better player, and hopefully remembered once it's time to leave. Rose on the other hand didn't do this. Did he cheat when it came to the whole gambling fiasco? Yes, but his play spoke for itself. So if we will let the steroid users in, why keep Rose out?